Are Ladyboys and Toms Gay?
Ladyboys have been a fashion in Thailand forever and an emerging trend in Toms (the Ladyboy equivalent for when a girl dresses and acts like a boy) the question in my mind is "are Ladyboys and Toms gay or are they straight?".
If I ask a Thai person is a Ladyboy gay they typically say no. They are a girl. Maybe it's the definition of what gay is. Gay is when a man and a man get together right. Well a Ladyboy is acting like a girl so it's not gay. Same goes for a Tom to Thai people. The Tom is acting like a boy so she is not a lesbian nor is the Dee she isn't a lesbian because she only likes Tom and Toms are just like guys therefore they arn't a lesbian.
Me I don't exactly think the same as Thai people do. In my opinion it's like the ladyboy is still a guy I don't care if he's taken it off whatever you are what you are when you're born. If you're a ladyboy or a man who likes a ladyboy then it's still two men together therefore gay. Same goes for Toms, your a woman dressed up like a guy I don't care how much tight things you wear to make yourself look like you have no boobs your still a lesbian and still gay.
Now before you guys who love the Ladyboys before you start throwing rocks at me let me explain that this is just how I view I've asked hundreds of people this question already and everyone has a different take and I think that's cool I mean if your with your ladyboy cuddling your Ladyboy and you make yourself believe she's really a woman then that's awesome dude, I kinda do the same thing, but instead of picturing a man dressed up as a lady I imagine Um Patchara.
I'll be the first to admit that some Ladyboys are pretty convincing more so than the Toms. It's actually a bad rap if your a Tom because basically your too ugly to be a woman. But for a Ladyboy you could still be a pretty good looking guy 🙂 And for the guys that love these pretty boys and the girls that love the ugly girls are they gay?
When I asked one guy he said to me "You can't be a straight man if you like Ladyboys". Do you think that's true? Is a straight man really a straight man if he likes Ladyboys can you still be straight if you like Ladyboys?
You know I have my own opinion but doesn't mean I'm right so if you think I'm wrong, agree, or maybe have another take on whether Ladyboys and toms are gay let me know in the comments section below.
Men who like lady boys are generally speaking heterosexual, and not homosexual or bisexual. If I like something which looks like a female, and don’t like something which looks like a male, that makes me a heterosexual, not a homosexual or bisexual. If men who liked lady boys were bisexual or homosexual, they would want to put their dick up Brad Pitt and George Clooney’s anal hole. The geometry of the sex organ doesn’t decide sexual orientation, it’s whether the person you are attracted to looks like a female or male, that’s what matters. I am attracted to anything that looks like a female; if it looks like a guy my dick would get soft. That’s proof enough that I am heterosexual. You don’t date a penis or vagina, you date a person.
Still what I don’t get is if you take of their clothes and look at them not all dressed up, do they look like a woman or a man? For the majority if you look at the lower part they still look like a man or woman right? A ladyboy with the male organ looks like a man down there and so does a Tom look like a woman down there. So unless they keep their clothes on when you have sex doesn’t that make you gay?
A person is attracted to a face, then sexual feelings come later. If I see a vagina two inches in front of my face, I am not going to want to do it, until I see what the face that’s attached to the body supporting the vagina looks like. If I see a penis in front of my face, I will probably throw up, unless I look up and see a face that’s hotter than most female faces and nice breasts. I won’t get turned on to a sexual organ, I will get turned on to a person’s face. I like the lady boy because it looks like a hot female. The sex organ that they have is secondary. Just happens to be the case that 99.99 percent of the time outside of Thailand if it looks like a hot female, it has a vagina. Also many people confuse sex and gender. Sex is biological. Gender is sociological. Most people have the same sex and same gender. Lady boys in Thailand are the exception – they are just females with penises. Say they had a sex organ that didn’t look like a penis or a vagina, sure biologically they are neither male nor female, but their gender is female. If a man is physically, sexually, and emotionally attracted to a person that looks like a male, then he is either homosexual or bisexual. If he is not, then he is heterosexual. If a man has sex with a Tom, and you cannot tell that Tom is a female, even though the Tom has a vagina, that makes that man either a homosexual or bisexual. That’s because he has feelings for attraction based on the fact that the Tom’s face looks like a man. If a person was drawn to penises, then he would do both the lady boy and the regular men – that is what a bisexual person is – the heterosexual guy who does lady boys, would not do a man, because it’s not about the penis, it’s about the feminine face and features. You date a person, not a sex organ.
Man – that was beautifully put – wow – absolute gold! Completely agree with every word you said.
Its also worth mentioning that a huge majority of macho guys, the guys who frown upon the ladyboy lovers as they try and convince themselves that they are 100% Macho man ( im a straight guy and i hate gays and faggots) Lots of them are actually closet gays and bisexuals, they just dont know it cos they would never dare to. They go out with the boys each night and only sleep with girls to brag to their mates hmmm.
someone who is completely at one with their sexuality, is someone like Vinto. If your not gay and you truly know it. you wont ever worry about someone calling you gay nor taking ladyboys and being open about it.
Wow, So you find ladyboys who most certainly have penises attractive. You are definitely gay..firstly, you don’t consider vagina and boobs representative of a girl. You are saying You see boobs and a face, so basically you are saying for you face and boobs are same but vaginas don’t matter..lol..either you are a really horny person in general, a freak or gay. But not straight for sure… gays should except their sexuality…world is changing but you still are fucking hypocrite
penis is a boy no matter what face looks like. keyword is boy. I am gay but not attracted to a boy who dresses/acts like a girl. no matter how exciting the experience may be. at the end of the day a boy is a boy and a girl is still a girl. if sex happens then your being turned on by a boy not a girl. anything that has a penis and balls is a boy no matter what packaging it showed up in.
Chris, FYI it really depends on the girl in question but most katoey have really feminine bodies…I think at least part of the attraction of ladyboys for Western men is that they conform to a body type that we associate with supermodels…tall, with long legs, angular shoulders and strong features. Not all katoey are tall it’s true but in general, as you must know, they tend to be. Add into that the effect of female hormones on features that are naturally rather beautiful anyway, and what you have is dynamite combination. Believe me, an undressed feminine katoey just looks like an outrageously hot undressed woman…..with one exception.
It’s the exception i’m not into you know, but I have no qualms with other peoples interests Perhaps I’m just old fashioned
Chris- at best you have touched upon a grey area. What about a ladyboy that has already had a vaginaplasty . If you know that the ladyboy used to be a man but has the cut , well, that refutes your argument. The Tom I understand gives sex only and leaves some of her garments on to create the illusion of being a male. What about guys that like their (genetic) woman to wear a strap on and have fantasy sex . Are they gay or do they just like their woman to show off a dick which symbolically represents role switching? There are guys that like to cross dress and have simulated lesbian sex with their girlfriend only. Perhaps attraction to Tom or Ladyboy for the same sex (genetically speaking) is its own thing. Not homosexual but neither exactly heterosexual. I think some people like to be confused and that may be the thrill. The fact that Vinto would never go with a man that looks masculine proves his point . The guy that ends up with a ladyboy does so because he is attracted to the feminine appearance – that’s the lure . the sex part is played out because men like to either please a woman or just simply have intercourse depending on the individual. Another way of looking at it – the ladyboy does a good job of playing the feminine role that the man responds to it. I’ve seen huge clits on genetic women that look like a small penis – and that is considered to be very sexy by many. Does that make the men that like to lick large clits gay because of the resemblance to the male sex organ. I think that refutes( respectfully ) your argument. ( or men that like extremely flat chested women etc….. etc…. ) or an older woman that wakes up in the morning without makeout and looks more like DeForest Kelley than a woman…..
You clearly have thought about this more than I have. For me it’s black and white. man and woman are called that because of biology, you can cut off my cock but i’ll still be a man, doesn’t matter what I pretend to be.
All man having that kind of fantasy eventually turned out to be gay..there is no smoke without fire and there is no fantasy of a woman with penis unless you are gay
hmm, yes, but the genitals are really such a small part of the whole person.
Perhaps, by themselves, the genitals are not enough
Yeah, you keep on believing that, Vinto. If you like a guy who dresses up like a girl, you are gay, queer, a homosexual. You can put a suit on a duck, but it is still a duck.
It would be easy to dismiss ‘farang’s’ reply as the typically ignorant response of a man deeply insecure in his own sexuality. However, since men like him are responsible for most of the physical violence and verbal hate directed at transsexuals, he has to be challenged, so let me correct his basic error: transsexual women are not ‘men dressed up like a girl’ they are girls. In order to be a man, it is necessary to have passed through puberty as a man, and to retain those changes to the body that this brings about. Significant numbers of ‘ladyboys’ or katoey begin hormone treatment so young they never had a male puberty and so are simply not men and never have been. Others on high hormone doses lose all the physical attributes of being a man, even if they did begin later. These women are simply are.not. men and the quicker Neanderthal men like farang get their heads round this the better. Thai society is extremely tolerant and you’d think they’d pick some of it up, but they’re too busy getting sick drunk and leering at ladyboys but pretending they’re not interested, while indulging in some highly homo-erotic ‘male bonding’. Isn’t that right, ‘mate’?
Now the term ‘katoey’ covers a broad range of transgendered presentation from the true transsexual described above (cf Harry Benjamin for more information) to effeminate gay men often called ‘fembois’ in the West, and all the shades in between. Clearly an individual attracted to this end of the scale is less ‘straight’. However, if you ever do your research you will find that Alfred Kinsey, the author of the only really deep and comprehensive studies of human sexuality, demonstrates that there is a scale from fully heterosexual to fully homosexual which he divides into seven grades from 0 to 6, 0 being fully heterosexual. His findings also proved that over 60% of men do not identify themselves as being ‘0’ and his research was done in the fifties when men were a lot more coy about this; more recent reanalysis of Kinsey’s field data suggests that the proportion of ‘0’s is much smaller, and personally I doubt if it’s more than 20%, but men will lie about these things.
That means that the MAJORITY OF MEN ARE NOT STRAIGHT at least in the narrow and hidebound sense that farang uses. The simple statistical probability is that he is not a 0 himself but is terrified of his feelings. Studies have proven conclusively that the men most likely to be ‘homophobic’ and violent and abusive towards any non-‘standard’ gender representation are in fact not straight themselves.
Katoey allow men to explore their sexuality in a completely new way (at least to the Western mind, conditioned as it is by the absurd legacy of Christian dualism) which better fits the actual, measured reality of human sexuality. Attraction to a transsexual does not make a man ‘gay’ or homosexual in the sense that he would be a 6 or even close to it on the Kinsey; but he’s not a 0 either, he’s somewhere in between.
Vinto’s response was pretty much on the money btw.
Excellent analysis Rod. i assume the same goes for woman too ? do they have their own 0 to 6 scale as well? I would think my dream girl would be around a 3.1 which would require me to purchase a king size bed for those nights when she both wants to be 0 and 6 ,
Farang – you are degrading Vinto – not arguing . Many ladyboys don’t merely just dress up like guys. Many take female hormones (which arguably transforms them) some get surgeries , soft skin and some even produce milk – a uniquely female function. The fact that he is not attracted to Mike Tyson or Brad Pitt speaks for itself.
yes you so right , me too like and love female and so too attracted to anything that look like female , i prefer women and if see ladyboy that have pretty female face with long hair and a nice big chest boobs its excite me and attractive me to her .
As a man who loves women and ladyboys I’d like to offer a theory. This is something I’ve believed for a long time, and have heard others express this opinion recently, too. For a very young boy who does not see a naked woman’s body, sexual fantasies can evolve that include women with penises. A boy knows he has a penis and he can see women’s breasts through their shirts, but since men’s penises (usually) don’t show through pants, young boys (and I am one who did) can come to believe that all people have penises, and his ealry childhood sexual fantasies can be of what we call a ladyboy. When he learns that girls don’t have penises he becomes what we can straight. But those deepest early sexual fantasies come back when he sees a photo (or a gogo dancer in Nana Plaza) of a ladyboy. It did for me. And I couldn’t escape that attraction even if I tried. And much as I love women, I do not deny my very strong attraction to transsexuals. This is not gay, but it ain’t 100% straight either.
Best response thus far, from someone who doesn’t have that attraction I find it difficult to understand the thinking. Your response has shed even more light to me on the subject, thank you.
Thank you Rogerthat and Vinto for your amazing responses which just happen to reflect my perspective also. I am other than attracted to males and I am attracted to beautiful ladyboys and I do not see them as ladyboys but instead persons whom I am attracted to. Actually, I do not try to see them as women or as men but just as they are which is almost either genderless or gender-more or androgynous…kind of like God but not necessarily Godlike. I truly feel that all men are homophobic on a scale of 0-100 and that in my experience, being intimate with a ladyboy is embracing my homophobia which I consider healthy regardless of how I embrace her.
Interesting, that if I consider the central female figure in the movie “Avalon”, I am very attracted to her body and her face but not her feet as the feet of a female is a strong sexual arousal factor for me. Consequently, if a ladyboy’s feet are too big I have less sexual attraction to her even though she may have an amazingly beautiful face. Bottom line is that I am grateful for all of God’s beauty in their massive variety of forms and thankful that I have learned to be truthful about my feelings.
I agree with Vinto and to some extend with the theory of Rogerthat. I.e. I had a sister and from young age a girlfriend so I knew how what female organs looked like, however for several years I was under the impression that sex went anal.
See my story here.
What if a ladyboy is attracted to women? Is this ladyboy a heterosexual (straight) then? It’s my case, I’m a bisexual tgirl mostly attracted to genetic women
Let’s make this clear – if you are stroking a penis that is not your own, you are gay. If your fingers are working a vagina that isn’t yours – you’re a lesbian. If you like ladyboys, that’s fine – but don’t act like you aren’t gay, because you are. Homosexuality is being attracted to members of the same sex. It does not matter how many hormone treatments a ladyboy has had- she’s still a he. Even post-op tgs are still MEN @ a genetic level. And I don’t care how hot a “girl” looks…if I see a set of balls down there, automatic deal breaker. As any straight man would tell you….
You didn’t answer my question. In a supposition that a ladyboy is attracted solely by women, this ladyboy is straight then? I am a tgirl mostly attracted to woman
i’m sorry but that’s just too far out there for me to answer.
Well. I dont think liking lady boys make you gay … But i also dont think ladyboys are women.
If you take a toyota and modify everything for it look like a Ferrari, does it make it a Ferrari ? No its a broken toyota
It’s quite weird. According to Chris, if a ladyboy has a relationship with a man, both are gays, but what if a ladyboy or transwoman in general is attracted only to women? It makes this transwoman a heterosexual person? No one wanted to answer because you know nothing about sexuality. It seems that Chris and others here think that just being a ladyboy (transwoman) makes a person gay, regardless which sex she is attracted to. (or do you think it is unlikely a MTF being attracted to woman?). Wrong. Being transgender is gender identity, being gay, bi or hetero is sexual orientation, totally separate things. I am a bisexual transgender person and i love women.
You are on a totally different level to me so I cannot agree or disagree.
In my case I am a bisexual Tgirl, a transbi. Chris, thank you for the opportunity of commenting in your blog. All the best to you
It’s all in your perspective … If a straight guy sees a beautiful woman and she proves to be a woman he’s straight; a straight guy sees a beautiful woman (LB) and learns she’s a pre-op and doesn’t mind then he’s Bi (if he thinks he still straight he’s in denial); if a straight guy sees a beautiful woman (former LB) who’s postop then it’s safe to say he’s still straight. If a LB likes to be feminine and decides not to go postop and still likes guys then he’s gay, if he also likes girls he’s Bi. If a LB likes to be feminine and still likes girls he’s straight with feminine issues; if a LB eventually goes postop she’s a woman in body and mind. If a postop LB likes girls and boys she’s Bi. The idea of transgender doesn’t describe a person as much as it describes the process. If you were a man and transgendered to a woman then you are a woman. If you still think of yourself in the male sense after transgendering then you probably transgendered to soon. Remember XX & XY? Those are just indicators. Sexuality isn’t black &white it involves nature, nurture and sometimes a skilled doctor.
Gregg, it’s not just a penis or a vagina that make a man or a woman. You call non op trans women (ladyboys) using masculine pronouns and names and this is disrespectful and wrong. You estimulate prejudice teaching unaware people that transgender women are men and it’s not a penis that makes someone a man. Gender identity matters much more than anything else. Generally trans men have vaginas because so called phalloplasty doesn’t make a functional penis. So, trans men have vaginas but that doesn’t make them women. I am a non op MtF but the fact of being non op doesn’t make me a man because my gender identity is feminine, I don’t identify being a man whatsoever. Hence, masculine names ou pronouns are offensive to me. We don’t want to grow breasts, look womanly and so on to being called men
Greggg, you call non op trans women (ladyboys) using masculine pronouns and names as if MtF transgenders were men and this is not fair because we have feminine gender identity and this matter much more than genitalia and anything else. I don’t identify as A man whatsoever, and calling a transwoman using masculine pronouns is disrespectful, gender identity must prevail. We don’t grow breasts, strive for look womanly to being called men
I am a non op MtF and i feel I am a transgender woman. It’s not a penis that makes me a man, I am sure gender identity matters much more than genitalia, and using pronouns according to one’s gender identity is the correct thing to do and a sign of respect to transgender people
Personally I do agree with Isabelle and most others who’ve commented on this post, however I have a different viewpoint altogether on the ‘labels’ people associate with gender and gender identity. I think that if someone identifies as a particular gender, they should be recognized as that gender in appearance. If they look more female (regardless if they have male genetalia or not) and identify as such, then they should be recognized as that and visa versa.
However, to address the question originally posted above, there are different types of gender identities (you can read up on the differences here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/?title=Transgender) but personally I don’t think identity has anything to do with sexual orientation. It’s inappropriate to ‘label’ ANYone with either hetero, homo or bisexual labels as this is a personal feeling (not an identification) that may likely change more than once throughout the period of that persons lifetime, as the person learns, grows and develops into who they want to be.
Arguments on whether a tom or ladyboy is ‘really considered a male or female in the eyes of the law’ is a completely different subject altogether as the laws are usually pretty black and white and don’t commonly accept someone identifying themself as ‘genderqueer’ rather than straight up M or F….but hey, law might evolve eventually, just as our society is. Government issued documents generally ask if you are M or F purely for identification reasons, so this isn’t usually an issue these days as you can list yourself as whichever you feel appropriate.
What IS an issue, however, is people judging others based on their sexual orientation, which I think is bulls@#*. Sexual orientation is whatever a person feels naturally attracted to and if that means a female with a penis or male with a vagina, who cares about how they label their sexuality? It’s just a label, I honestly don’t see why it matters to people so much. Sometimes people just fall in love with a person, for who they are, and therefore that persons gentalia doesn’t become an issue because hey, love conquers all. The person is still the same whether they like to take a male, female or 3rd gendered person to bed with them. Personal preference is exactly that – personal. There’s no need to understand it, unless you’re having troubles with your own sexuality or gender identity, then yeah, perhaps a little exploration is in order. But labels? Pffft. Unecessary and a ridiculous notion I say.
Those attracted to ladyboys are straight. They are attracted to the female form not the penis.
The logic that sex with a ladyboy makes you gay or bi is ridiculous. Does sex with a female with a strapon make you gay? No.
There’s lots of ignorant and insecure people on this site who simply have no understanding of orientation. Gay men have no interest in transsexual women, deal with it.
From my own personal experience, as a heterosexual man and father of 3 children, I find some of the “Ladyboys” whom I’ve met in Thailand and elsewhere in Asia incredibly beautiful and feel very attracted to them. However, I have to draw the line at engaging in sexual activity with them because I would nether like to see or god forbid touch another man’s penis.
For men who are able to enjoy sex in this fashion, I say good luck to you and I don’t really care too much to label you as straight, gay or anything else.
However, I do imagine that most Ladyboys who engage in penetrative sex (i.e. Top) are gay men and therefore Farang men who allow this sex to occur are either gay or bi-sexual on some level.
I believe that Ladyboys who have had their penis removed are people who were simply born into the wrong bodies and have altered this as soon as they have been able to. I see no reason why a man should consider himself anything other that 100% straight if he wished to have sex with someone like this.