Should I have stopped the guy raping a Thai Girl
My life which like that of other Expats in Thailand either retired out here early or working online typically sleep when the sun comes up. Being awake during the night however you see a lot of crazy stuff happen even in "mild" Chiang Mai. I've been living on and off on the same street for a few years now and in that time I've seen a few police raids. Armed Bandits holding up an illegal casino. I've seen naked college girl cat fights between Toms and Dees on balconys obviously high on drugs. I've seen car accidents, motorbike accident's fist fights, and a drunken brawl. I've seen drug dealers and prostitutes, pimps and transvestites, bikies and basic hoodlems and today I thought I witnessed a rape.
It was about 3am and I went to 7 eleven to get some coffee but when I get back I hear this girl screaming for her life, i'm like WTF the security guard across the road is slowly making his way out to see what's going on, I didn't race either because it's 3am and there's always someone screaming at that time.
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As I get to the road there are legs hanging out of a car this girl screaming, the screaming turns quickly into muffled noises as if she's being strangled or a hand placed over her mouth to shut her up. I'm super alarmed at this point so my instinct takes over and I race to the door, open it and this chick is butt nakid and a young Thai guy on top of her while she's still screaming. I tell the girl to get out and the guy is like No! No! even though she's trying to get out he's stopping her. Funny thing is there's like this blanket in there covering her so i don't realise she's got no clothes on...anyway so he's not letting her out so i drag the guy out of the car while he tries to get back in, i catch a glimps of her and she has blood all over her mouth and he has scratches on his neck.
I don't know what they were fighting about but I've seen them around before they were definately boyfriend/girlfriend. This girl is really shaken but they are both drunk so shit is probably just amplified however she's bleeding and in shock and this guy keeps grabbing at her and making her more upset so I push him right out of the way, i felt like knocking him but i'm trying to keep my cool so shit doesn't escalate more.
Now there's a security guard and one of the guys friends are there and they are saying things like "your Thai person too you understand, she's a troublemaker". So I guess I'm not Thai and I don't understand why a guy will make his girl bleed from the mouth, I don't wanna be Thai if that shit is OK. I'm trying to calm this guy down, some kid maybe 20 y/o that what his done is wrong and that she should now go home. But the security guy keeps interupting me saying that "they are bf/gf" like that has anything to do with it. Sure perhaps you arn't raping her I don't know why your fighting but fuck dude she's bleeding and balling her eyes out and clearly she wants to go home without this dude.
All three of these Thai guys didn't think anything was a problem, meanwhile this girl is still in shock, crying her eyes out keeps clutching at me because she's so scared then the kicker, the security guard says it's going to be OK because the kids father is a policeman. Oh OK. That makes it all better now.
This guy wouldn't give up the keys and the other dudes were not interested in helping out the girl in any way. Things had calmed down and I sat the girl down until she was better and the guy went away. I didn't ask her about what happened cause really I don't care as long as she was OK. I asked a few people about this last night about what they would have done in this situation. Most all said they would have done the same thing, some guys reckoned I should have kicked the shit out of the guy, but then a few said I shouldn't have got involved that I should have walked back home and locked the doors, what do you think about that?
Me i'm super pissed at a comment like that not because it shows they have no compassion but because it's gutless. I didn't know it was a domestic it could have actually been a rape hell it could have been a gang rape I could have got stabbed, beaten or even killed. Sure that's true, but what if it were you in that situation or perhaps to happen to a relative of yours and you did absolutely nothing, how would you feel then? Can I assume if they witnessed someone raping me or kicking the shit out of me then they'd do nothing as well?
There are situations you should not get involved in at all and I know I've walked out of plenty of them, but you should know your environment as well, getting involved in an altercation around Loi Kroh road road as apposed to one next to Chiang Mai University it's completely different. So no i'm not exactly saying to go out and be a vigilante or get in the middle of a gunfight just saying that there are times when you should stand up and say "Fuck That!".
In this case this girl is a fool for even being around this clown but that doesn't make it right what he did. Have you seen any Thai soaps before? This is basically the storyline of every single one......
Girl meets guy. Guy cheats on girl. Girl goes and bitch slaps the other girl. The other girl didn't know and goes back to the guy who turns around and bitch slaps her. He's now angry so he goes bitch slaps the other girl too.
Maybe this is what those Thai guys were talking about. "You understand, you're Thai people too.".
You did the right thing, if it was me that piece of shit would of had his scull shattered against a brick wall
It’s tough because that is part of Thai culture. Police have actually gone on record saying that it’s impossible for a girl to be the victim of rape if she knew her attacker. Even foreign women in Thailand on holiday.
So, you have the fact that this is their country and their culture and at the same time you have this overwhelming sense of right and wrong and a need to be a Good Samaritan.
If you do go down the Good Samaritan path, keep in mind the first paragraph I wrote. If you harm the boy in any way, you are the aggressor in the eyes of the police since, in their messed up thinking, no crime was being committed as they are boyfriend and girlfriend. The boy will testify that you jumped him while he and his girlfriend were having an argument and you’ll be charged with assault.
And there’s zero chance she’s going to contradict the boy’s story to the police. Especially if the boy’s dad is a cop.
This is one of the parts of Thai culture and the Thai legal system that makes the place a depressing place to live.
In the end, there’s no easy answer. None of us wants to sit back and let bad things happen but the system is set up to screw you if you do try to right a wrong.
You did the right thing Chris!
Imagine the amount of guilt you would have had to live with had the Thai guy killed the girl if you didn’t intervene.
I think you did well, not beating the shit out of the guy was the right move because in that case you would certainly have the two other guys against you.
I must admit, reading the title, I thought you didn’t do anything. I was relieved to see I was wrong, kudos Chris 😉
Chris,
Well done Mate. You done what a true man would do. You should be proud of yourself for doing the right thing and keeping your cool. Congrats.
Hey Chris i am moving to Thailand in July this year, will have to catch up and buy you a Beer for the good deed you done for the girl. Cheers.
Thanks mate, I hope you enjoy Thailand! Sure if you come to Chiang Mai let’s catch up.
you did the right thing chris, if it ended up in a fight at least u stoped the asshole
i have no respect for anyone rapping a girl.
and to the other guys to just walk away,, loosers
if that was ur sister, mom, gf,wife,, u would just walk away,, wtf
or ur best friends wife or sister,, come on,,,,,
well thats my opinion, good job chris!!!
What you did in your head and in america would be considered the right thing but here in thailand or any third world country is considered stupid. That boy could have killed you. You aren’t any hero i read your other post you are just of a dog as the next man. Don’t try to cover your sins by pointing fingers at others. I been with a shit loads of women from farang to Brazilians and i know one thing WE ALL FUCKEN LIE TO GET WHAT WE WANT AND YOU MY FRIEND ARENT ANY ANGEL. So shut up drink your coffee and stop watching too many movies…
well several things – do you know it was rape or a ‘domestic’ – I mean they are (were?) bf/gf? it could have been a violent argument and clothes were ripped? we don’t fully know right? maybe they were making out and then it turned nasty? maybe he caught her with another guy who jumped out and ran away etc.?
telling the security guard is exactly the right thing to do so good for you
bet you see them arm in arm within a few days – Thailand is a weird place, you know that, and their standards of behaviours and conduct are LIGHT years away from the norms in farangland
you are right, no doubt they’ll be back together
I what universe is it ok to beat up a girl because she is your girlfriend?
A Thai universe…thought you knew.
Hi Chris,
Well done mate! I think you handled it perfectly, a good balance of protecting the girl and as much as the guy deserved a beating you stayed focused on girl… Had you laid into the chick bashing prick who knows what may have happened.
It’s in moments like these we see what caliber of men we are… You have done yourself proud mate!
Nice work; I have heard the ‘can’t be raped by someone you know’ reasoning before as well. I think the police in Krabi used that for the girl who got raped by the tour guide no? Anyway good work, you did the right thing, the girl has probably already gone back to him though as sad as that sounds
IMHO, you did the right thing. It sucks to see what a shitty place this world can be sometimes.
Chris
I live on the Huaykaew Rd so you understand that I really do know the score about late night events in Western Chiang mai No matter what the outcome you rest easy because we do what we can when we can. If not we live with it forever. You did it, easy to talk the talk but at 3 am harder to walk the walk, and you did. On a lighter side buy yourself a kettle and coffee at Central Kad suan kaew.
Keep the site rolling but please log some happy times so we can laugh instead of cry.
lol, lots of people emailed me the “get a kettle” lol. Truth is sometimes I work all night on the computer, going for a walk for a coffee is the only release i get.
Good on you Chris, it was definitely right in your eyes and u did something about it.it is about ones own conscience and looking in the mirror without shame ,guilt..you can my man look straight in to the mirror.. ( already for this case, p:)..
Good call.
Of course the typical white knight dudes will puff their imaginary chests out and talk about how they would have ‘kicked his ass’. Uhm … they’ll be the next knifing casualty in the news, and I’ll snicker about it.
Just taking the minimum amount of interference to chill things out, cool. Also, respecting the culture of the host country, whether we as foreigners are agree or not, is just good self preservation instinct (not to mention polite – it’s their country).
All that said, sometimes a girl just needs a little smackdown and some boyfriend-car rape. Heh.
No comment.
Wow , some good comments there, I had a few of my own but they have been covered. Bottom line is you made the right decision.
Brave considering the kids dads a cop. Only pick the fights you know you can win. I like your style, and too think you have been accused of being a sociopath.
Yes you did the right thing. A coward would have done nothing. Glad to hear you didn’t get hurt yourself. There are times a person must take a risk to help someone in trouble.
Good job Chris! You did the right thing.
Nothing will ever change until someone speaks out.
someone a while ago said to me this is not 500bc women dont need Knights anymore well he talks Shit im proud to be one and so should you be “Arise Sir Chris “
What a horrible read. Obviously you live in a nice part of CM if you’ve seen all that shit in just a few years.
I think you were right to intervene, however they don’t like it when a farang tries to get involved in a Thai/Thai argument/fight.
Their take is that because you aren’t Thai you cannot possibly understand what led up to it, even though you easily would if it were explained in English.
I think what they were saying to you Chris was that as you live here, interact with Thais and speak Thai you should understand.
i.e. Understand that it was between bf & gf and as such, in Thai eyes, nothing to do with anyone else.
Its unfortunate that still today in 2013 Thai females are seen as having zero value by many Thai males.
Has the girl made no attempt to find you and thank you?
No the girl made no attempt to say thank you at any point but that’s a very Thai trait.
Or, because she did not feel thankful and knew you had made life worse for her ultimately.
I have to go against the majority here. I don’t think what you did was necessarily “wrong”. However, I don’t think it was the smart decision either. There was a security guard on his way over there already. I don’t think there was any need for you to play superhero. I do think you should have just notified the police, and/or told the security guard to hurry his azz up and get over there. Like another poster stated, you might now find yourself subject to assault charges.
In this particular case, there were other options other than getting directly involved and putting yourself at risk (both physically and legally).
Another thing to keep in mind is that it’s not unheard of for a Thai gal to go a little nutty. After all, Thailand takes great pride in the fact that their surgeons are the best in the world at reattaching severed penises that have been removed from their owner by a jealous wife/girl-friend.
And I can’t even count the number of stories I’ve heard of Thai girls pulling a knife in the midst of a fight or showing up with her wrists slashed to hell.
Or what if she was out clubbing with the girls and got all hopped up on yaba and her boyfriend had to pull her out of a situation and she was attacking him because she was in a drug fueled rage?
There’s a reason why (typically western) police who are trained to respond to domestic disputes *try* not to form an opinion of what’s going on too quickly. They separate the parties and hear all sides of the story before doing anything else.
The number of times a cop has been wounded or killed while he’s trying to subdue the husband only have have the wife come attack him are too many to count.
Like I said, it’s not an easy situation to be in. I’m hardwired to help. But, I think the place where your responsibility ends in a situation like this is calling the security guard (or police).
unfortunately, while Im sure it is comforting to see so many people say you did the right thing, you already know the answer before you wrote this post. Once you found out they were bf/gf it was none of your business from a Thai point of view and you should be very vigilant over the next few weeks because there may be revenge coming. You dont know what the girl did or didnt do, you dont know what the boy did or didnt do. The perspective which matters here (the only one which matters) is the one that matches the girl herself. Since she is Thai, you do her little service by approaching it from any other perspective. She has to live in her own culture (or are you gonna take her home to yours?)
lol i’m going to be fine bro but thanks for the concern.
Well I think you did the right thing & I would have done the same.
On a side not I see all the 3 or so new articles are for pay to view only.
Kind of sorry it went to an all pay site as I kind of enjoyed checking in from time to time.
Thanks though as there was some good reads.
two sides of the coin, lots of people don’t want me to publish good information because it can be used by some the wrong way or lessen the effect hence the VIP articles. If you like the blog would love your support so I can continue writing more stuff, thank you.
http://www.chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=1038
Apparently she was screaming for quite a while, but I guess the neighbours, like too many of the people commenting here, were too busy inventing excuses for why they should not intervene.
After all, it could be the girl screaming for here life was actually
“attacking him because she was in a drug fueled rage”, or were just practising her vocal cords.
Idiot.
If a chick is screaming for her life, come on at least go make sure she is OK, if you can’t find her call the cops, i don’t understand why no one would do that.
Yes the WISE thing to do if you anderstand Thailand is to not get involved in any way otherise only problem will come to you so let him deal with this girl rape or assault OR BOTH !
but this is only if your consciene aloud you to continue your life knowing that you did let this behave going on, later will you think about her asking yourself did she was Rape/beated or killed OR BOTH !
if you had been Wise and then got No remors you probably have no respect for the humain life or be a coward OR BOTH !
“Should I have stopped the guy raping a Thai girl”? Misleading title, no? Either way, I almost never feel inclined to get involved because what if the victim deserves it?
Don’t get me wrong, I commend Chris for doing something.
But would I have went so far as to physically intervene when others including a guard did not?
Not necessarily, and if that makes me a coward so be it.
I don’t claim to be a Chuck Norris as others online act like, some fantasy where they do a spinning kick on the bad guy to save the damsel in distress.
The reality is that these are Thai matters and to me it is enough to see what is going on and then notifying the police. The fact that the girl did not thank afterwards speaks volumes. I wouldn’t be surprised if these two went back together again. Same principle as it would be back home, call the police and let them handle it. I think I read somewhere that domestic situations are one of the most dangerous for the police to handle.
Why make more enemies especially if you live there?
Though I agree that attitudes in Thailand are antiquated on this issue the fact remains that getting involved in a domestic is *always* dangerous. I’ve got involved in domestics in France and England as well as here and the men involved there had just the same neanderthal “she’s my girlfriend I can do what I want” attitude to the whole thing.
Despite all that I hear I’ve actually been quite impressed when I’ve had to deal with Thai police (once because my friend’s girlfriend turned into a raging lunatic, as mentioned above), they’ve been very good at calming people down and getting different sides of the story.
I think this is the most important thing that Chris did, if you start yelling or pushing people around it just gets worse. Talking quietly until they realise they don’t want to be doing this works much better.
I used to do what you did chris..now sorry to say friend i dont blink an eyelid..unless that person being attacked is known to me..were ever in the world m.y.o.b…sticking your head were it dont belong is a recipe for disaster..if you do engage you enter at own risk and are liable for just about everything…this day and age people are degrading slowly but surely..all values are eroded sorry to say..its a violent world only to get worse..stay stafe..and use your head not your emotions!!!!
A lot of really smart & insightful comments here by expat posters very realistic & familiar with Thai behavior, youth drug culture, Thai police, twisted law, and the reality of M.Y.O.B mindset & how to stay calm to minimize violence & chance of Chris making some enemies. I salute the posters that helped Chris see both sides of his actions & dilemma. I can’t add anything more, except praise Chris for staying calm, assessing the risk to all parties, & minimizing the very real potential for escalating the violence with that 20-year-old attacker (lucky he did not pull a weapon on Chris). Good work, Chris. She’s lucky you intervened before she got hurt & bloodied even worse (or killed, maimed, raped). The attacker is lucky you intervened (you may have saved him from going to prison for rape, murder, etc.). You’re lucky you intervened (your conscience would haunt you for a long time if the newspapers the following day carried news of her murder). From your many insightful articles I gladly read, & this article for sure, I sense you’re a careful, level-headed, very clever guy, so I’m confident you’ll be carefully assessing the merits of the comments of posters who don’t agree with you. I do agree you did the right thing. We like your articles & want you to be around to write more of them. Thus, please be really cautious (think twice) the next time you witness Thais (or anyone!) performing such violence in public, especially if you’re intoxicated, out drinking alcohol & partying. I really appreciate your written contributions that enhance my life in this interesting country, and I don’t want to read an Obituary with your name in it. Ever. Cheers, Chris! Respectfully, one of your loyal fans.
Thanks edit
im moving to CM in july and i feel your anger at the treatment of this woman.
but i have done a lot of due diligence on TL and their coulture.
1 of the 10 golden rules,
never get involved i a thai
persons business.
i respect your choice mate and all the power to you.
i remember walking down soi diana in patts one day
and just before i got to second road there was this
thai lady hurt pretty bad…head injuries etc etc.
my first reaction was to offer assistance as my
maritime training involves a lot of first aid and
i could see instantly that the 3 thai guys who
were helping her didnt have a clue.
as i started to walk over (accessing her injuries
and looking for signs of shock) the 3 thai guys
must of heard me getting close, turned from
their crouched positions and gave my the
filthiest looks i have ever had…
then it popped it my head…
“never get involved in a thia persons business”
i fell bad that i couldnt help that lady but being
only my second trip i aired on the side of
caution…no “monkey house” for me…
any thoughts guys?
cheers
jim.
A few moons ago I was riding with some friends from CM to BKK. Raining hard.The driver was father of a “Thai movie star” and she along with her ‘uncle’ – a naturalized American SWAT cop and myself were the passengers. Garbage truck made a u-turn in front of a pickup truck. Pickup tried to stop but ran into the truck. Obvious injuries. I told the driver to stop, I could render assistance until the ambulance arrived. Driver drove around this carnage and told me if I helped and someone died, I could be held responsible. If they didn’t have insurance, I could be liable for their payments. So we left them bleeding – the entire family, while the garbage truck extracted itself and hustled away. Never felt so ashamed.
Viet Medic makes a good point. Not all countries have “Good Samaritan” laws. It was the same situation in Saudi Arabia. If you stop to help, if something ends up happening to the victim, even if it is no fault of yours, you could be held liable.
If you are willingly to help a stranger despite knowing this, then you are truly a “Good Samaritan” and God will reward you in the afterlife. However, in the present life you are at the mercy of men and their culture/customs.
Hi Chris.
As you may know, I have booked in at your father’s guest house in February, but before then, I will be in Nong Khai, Ban Dung & Vientiane.
Do you have any experience/knowledge of the nightlife there, please?
I will be in Chiang Mai for your Flower Festival & would like to take photographs of the floats, etc. being decorated prior to the parade & also take photographs on the day as the floats & people are preparing to process.
Can you please suggest one or two good places for me to do this?
Many thanks.
Regards,
N.
Every year they do things differently, most of the floats are indipendant so they are not all done at the same place making it difficult for me to tell you where to go wish I could be more help. I’ll try to find out though. Hope you enjoy your stay. As for Vientiane. Personally Loas sucks.
well, chris i would say since now it is all fine & you are out of the shit, it is very easy to say you had guts & saved the girl. look at the other side if the girl had given statement against you to police under the impression of the boy’s father being police, we would have not got this to hear from you for a long time…….
(I didn’t race either because it’s 3am and there’s always someone screaming at that time.)
By the above it means screaming is commonly heard, why would you get involved in this shit, when it was common.
Last time i was in pattaya in lucifer, there were 2 guys (brother from arab) both were asked to buy drink & 1 did not purchased & was asked by security to leave, he did leave & come back after 15-20 mins, i was there, when the guy agained showed up with intention to buy a drink as there was money in his hand. but the security when saw him again they asked him to go out & didnt even care to ask him for his return & then the fight began, which all of us are aware.
Thais are very simple. It is us where we come from a very complex world in this simple world of thais, where once said “no” means always no, be eat for food, bargain, girls, shopping discounts & entry permits to clubs.
Did any one who why the thais have a charge on farang for some of its club & also a higher price compared to thais. simple, they dont want farang to visit their place & have problems at their premises. They charge higher coz they know they can get more from you & you are less likely to create problems & they filter the farangs from the problem makker & less problem makkers.
As far as the answer to your question “should i have stopped the ———”
I would say under circumstances of the time, very few people on road, security guard movement slow, too dark & screaming noises every time in night, the best is to avoid the situation to help by yourself, Instead if want to help as a Farang ask cops to do the needful as this is the safest for you, girl & the boy.
Remember when the flight attendant announces for seat belt tighten, they say incase of emergency life jacket to be worn, first get your jacket on & then help others.
This is my opinion
Thailand for Farangs like me, you & all is always BE SAFE
D
If a girl was getting raped in a car in pattaya that’s one thing, but this is behind chiang mai university not Lucifer nightclub. It’s always good to judge your surroundings before acting in situations like this.
anyway like they say in thai, upto you.